Comments on: The Myth of Primitive Perfection 1 http://mattwiebe.com/2008/05/the-myth-of-primitive-perfection-1/ Matt Wiebe's blog about faith and life. Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:45:05 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: William http://mattwiebe.com/2008/05/the-myth-of-primitive-perfection-1/#comment-9220 William Wed, 28 May 2008 17:57:56 +0000 http://mattwiebe.com/?p=372#comment-9220 Matt. I agree that ignorance of church history is a major problem. I am excited to hear what you have to write about that. Cam. More specific? Arrogance, I think, is caused by both ignorance and pride. (which is precisely what Matt mentioned above.) Too many church leaders these days think they can get by without a proper understanding of both church history and theology. They assume far too much about God and the church. Pride is something that is all too common among church leaders as well. We have difficulty admitting our views may be wrong. Matt. I agree that ignorance of church history is a major problem. I am excited to hear what you have to write about that.

Cam. More specific? Arrogance, I think, is caused by both ignorance and pride. (which is precisely what Matt mentioned above.) Too many church leaders these days think they can get by without a proper understanding of both church history and theology. They assume far too much about God and the church. Pride is something that is all too common among church leaders as well. We have difficulty admitting our views may be wrong.

]]> By: Matt http://mattwiebe.com/2008/05/the-myth-of-primitive-perfection-1/#comment-9219 Matt Wed, 28 May 2008 17:46:44 +0000 http://mattwiebe.com/?p=372#comment-9219 Good discussion lads. Arrogance, yes, absolutely. But I think there's also a double ignorance at work: ignorance of church history, and an ignorance of the face that that's a problem. I'll be touching on the historical angle in another post. Good discussion lads. Arrogance, yes, absolutely. But I think there’s also a double ignorance at work: ignorance of church history, and an ignorance of the face that that’s a problem. I’ll be touching on the historical angle in another post.

]]> By: Cam http://mattwiebe.com/2008/05/the-myth-of-primitive-perfection-1/#comment-9218 Cam Wed, 28 May 2008 16:12:31 +0000 http://mattwiebe.com/?p=372#comment-9218 I agree that arrogance is part of their unconscious approach, but I wonder if we could get more specific, especially with regards to the cause. Is this a symptom of our culture's approach to history in general? I agree that arrogance is part of their unconscious approach, but I wonder if we could get more specific, especially with regards to the cause. Is this a symptom of our culture’s approach to history in general?

]]> By: William Knelsen http://mattwiebe.com/2008/05/the-myth-of-primitive-perfection-1/#comment-9208 William Knelsen Wed, 28 May 2008 05:34:10 +0000 http://mattwiebe.com/?p=372#comment-9208 Cam. From what I've observed, it seems as though people think they can do Christianity better than everyone else as a result of one simple thing, which Matt mentioned above. Arrogance. In fact, it is quite possible we are doing the very same thing as we share these thoughts. I have written a <a href="http://williamknelsen.com/?p=27" rel="nofollow">blog post</a> that is similar to this topic about helping God. I find myself guilty of thinking I can do Christianity better than those before me, when I am really doing nothing at all. Read the post to get the whole message. Cam. From what I’ve observed, it seems as though people think they can do Christianity better than everyone else as a result of one simple thing, which Matt mentioned above. Arrogance. In fact, it is quite possible we are doing the very same thing as we share these thoughts.

I have written a blog post that is similar to this topic about helping God. I find myself guilty of thinking I can do Christianity better than those before me, when I am really doing nothing at all. Read the post to get the whole message.

]]> By: Cam http://mattwiebe.com/2008/05/the-myth-of-primitive-perfection-1/#comment-9207 Cam Wed, 28 May 2008 05:27:51 +0000 http://mattwiebe.com/?p=372#comment-9207 You can spot the sermons a mile away. They usually end with two things: 1) Pray more 2) Read your Bible more, and an optional 3) Stop sinning. They are always very helpful. What is the motivation in claiming that the "time is now" to start living in the Promised Land, characterizing the church as not-yet-crossed-over? It can't just be ignorance of the last 2,000 years. You can spot the sermons a mile away. They usually end with two things: 1) Pray more 2) Read your Bible more, and an optional 3) Stop sinning. They are always very helpful.

What is the motivation in claiming that the “time is now” to start living in the Promised Land, characterizing the church as not-yet-crossed-over? It can’t just be ignorance of the last 2,000 years.

]]> By: Matt http://mattwiebe.com/2008/05/the-myth-of-primitive-perfection-1/#comment-9205 Matt Wed, 28 May 2008 01:33:29 +0000 http://mattwiebe.com/?p=372#comment-9205 <strong>William</strong>: now that you're listening for it you'll hear it all the time... oh, the arrogance. William: now that you’re listening for it you’ll hear it all the time… oh, the arrogance.

]]> By: William http://mattwiebe.com/2008/05/the-myth-of-primitive-perfection-1/#comment-9200 William Tue, 27 May 2008 16:48:13 +0000 http://mattwiebe.com/?p=372#comment-9200 That is so funny that you wrote this. I was just recently at a church that pretty much said that exact thing during the service. The preacher said "the world has yet to see a church living in the full blessing of God... but the time is now". I couldn't believe the claim he made. This is what I was thinking: So... you know that for the past 2000 years there has not been one single church that has been living in the blessing of God? Okay, that could possibly be true. However, what makes you think your church will achieve that? And even if you did, what makes you think the World will see this blessing? Did the world see Christ living in the full blessing of God? No, we crucified him. Ugh. That is so funny that you wrote this. I was just recently at a church that pretty much said that exact thing during the service.

The preacher said “the world has yet to see a church living in the full blessing of God… but the time is now”. I couldn’t believe the claim he made. This is what I was thinking:

So… you know that for the past 2000 years there has not been one single church that has been living in the blessing of God? Okay, that could possibly be true. However, what makes you think your church will achieve that? And even if you did, what makes you think the World will see this blessing? Did the world see Christ living in the full blessing of God? No, we crucified him. Ugh.

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